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欧洲幽门螺杆菌治疗共识 5

H pylori clarifications and guidance needed.

There are several types of tests for H.pylori. The major ones have a their own forum.

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Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:06 am

H pylori clarifications and guidance needed.

Post by SynesthAsia » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:20 pm

Hello, fellow sufferers and experts.

I am confused and overwhelmed by all the different resources/approaches and uncertainties surrounding HP and need some sound guidance.
I live and work in Cambodia and was tested positive for HP (64CPM) in August, after a few weeks of weird sensations in my upper abdomen and constant low grade to moderate nausea. I was prescribed the standard triple eradication therapy and was advised to continue with PPI for a month after its completion. Given the fact that according to the doctor I didn t "seem" to have an ulcer -no endoscopy was performed-, I stopped taking the PPI immediately after I completed the course of antibiotics as I hate taking pharmaceuticals, unless absolutely nessecary. I was fine during and after the treatment, traveled abroad for a month, was able to eat everything and indulge in chocolates, coffees and all the treats I love to have every now and then without issues. Side note: I am generally a healthy eater without going crazy, I never eat junk food, never drink sodas, had never in my adult life taken antibiotics and have always been very fit, athletic, very low body fat etc.
After my return to Cambodia I was fine for two weeks and then the symptoms returned....grrrr. The same weird feeling in my upper abdomen, not pain but something else which I can t accurately describe. Presure? heaviness? Something like that.I also have nausea non stop all the time. Sometimes very mild, almost undetectable and other times moderate. It seems to get worse at night. I had a few nights where I d wake up in the middle, feeling horribly nauseous. I was also fatigued and weak but fortunately a good quality B complex took care of that. Another thing that happened was that I developed hard core health anxiety. The ONLY medication that can take the edge of my nausea nowdays is neither an antacid nore ranitidine, it s valium out of all pills! I am very careful with how often I indulge as it s been sold over the counter here and the last thing I need is to develop and addiction to diazepam.... This fact makes me think sometimes that my stomach issues might be mostly anxiety related but I somehow sense they are not. Any opinions related to that?
I started researching HP online and WOW! The information is so confusing and contradicting. Some sources claim that antibiotics are the only cure, some others say that treating HP with antibiotics is a diservice to all sufferers as the only thing they do is to mess up one's insides and they contribute to the climbing global HP resistance rates. Mastic gum works. No it doesn' t. Manucas, Matuals and other potions are treatments guaranteed, your money back. No they aren' t. Doctors know. Doctors don' t know. I m completely overwhelmed. In the midst of this chaos and disorder I went to another doctor had a stool test which came back negative....but I was taking Pepto Bismol at the time of the test and read later that Bismuth components render the tests unreliable. The doctor knew it but didn't warn me..... I could go on and on about the confusion in my head but what I mostly need is some sound and informed advice from someone who knows what they re talking about, on how to proceed. At the moment I am taking mastic gum, drink oregano teas and have stopped coffee and fried food, although, in all honesty I haven t noticed any specific food sensitivities even with sugar, I just do it just in case. I eat many greens and non acidic fruits anyway, eat probiotic yogurts and healthy fats so no special modifications need to be applied on the nutrition department, I think. I am very reluctant to talk to my doctor about my concerns and suggestions. I have noticed that medical practitioners tend to become very defensive if they perceive that a patient is trying to dispute their authority so it's easier for me to address my questions here.

1. Can Pepto Bismol really produce false negatives? How long should I wait before I get retested?

2. What can I take whilst waiting for the time to get retested, which will not mess up my stomach even further and will ease the edge of the nausea (my most difficult to deal with symptom)?

3. I am reading research based evidence that a substance called NAC can help dissolve the biofilm of the HP, thus make eradication easier. Do you know of any clinical trials/evidence on the topic? Should I try it?

4. In case I am positive again what antibiotics combo would you recommend other than triple therapy, given the fact that the option for a drug sensitivity test might not be available to me? I will of course compare with what the doctor will recommend and repost here.

5. Are there any natural products that can ease the symptoms? I would say eradicate the bacteria but given the fact that the experts here have faith in antibiotics I shy away from this verb.

6. Finally, should I venture to treat my infection the natural way? What are the experts' opinions on that? I have put together a protocol, after extensive research online and thinking of giving it a try. I know that the official unanimous opinion of the medical comunity states that natural treatments don' t work but hey, apparently, antibiotics don' t work either in many case....My concern regarding antibiotics is what if they don t work this time either? And then I might be wasting valuable time using natural/over the counter products, time I could have used to try and eradicate the bacteria the medically approved way.
it s a conondrum, I know.
Thank you for reading. Your input is highly appreciated but only if you know what you re talking about, please. I ve had a lot of unsolicited advice and opinions from individuals and sites that claim to know but they really don' t.

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Re: H pylori clarifications and guidance needed.

Post by Helico_expert » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:50 pm

Thank you for sharing your story.

1. bismuth has anti-bacterial effect and can reduce H. pylori load. Breath/stool test rely on the high bacterial load to give accurate test result. When the bacterial load is reduced, a false negative may be given.

2. while waiting to be re-tested, if you have gastric symptoms, you can take ranitidine or any H2 blocker to temporarily reduce the acid. You can continue ranitidine until the night before breath/stool test.

3. biofilm of H. pylori protecting it from antibiotic is not solid. you can ignore it.

4. if your follow up test turned up positive again, you can try another triple therapy with different antibiotics. Amoxicillin can be reused as H. pylori can never become resistant to Amoxicillin. I assume you had PPI + Amox + Metronidazole as your first treatment. if that's true, then you can have PPI + Amox + Clarithromycin. The tip for a successful treatment is double standard PPI dose, double Amoxicillin standard dose, and can consider adding bismuth in the treatment.

5. there is no effective natural product. some people claims they have unique formula that worked for them, but those outcome is usually non-repeatable.

6. I think a systematic treatment is the best way. you can experiment yourself on natural way, but usually that is only useful in controlling symptom but not removing the root of the problem.

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Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:06 am

Re: H pylori clarifications and guidance needed.

Post by SynesthAsia » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:15 am

Thank you Helico Expert I appreciate your help.
Just a clarification. I found my medical certificate and realized that the treatment I was given might have been different from the classic triple eradication therapy.
I was prescribed Amoxil, a PPI and Gaviscon for the first five days and Ormediazole ,Clarithomycin plus the PPI for the another five.
My diagnosis was Dyspepsia and Gastroesophageal reflux disease without esophagitis plus the HP
Does it sound right?

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Re: H pylori clarifications and guidance needed.

Post by Helico_expert » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:06 pm

yea.. it's a weird sequential therapy. I would think 2 antibiotics work better than 1 antibiotic. But perhaps your doctor know this has a good cure rate in the your region.

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