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Toxicosis in H.pylori infection

The various unpleasant manifestations of Helicobacter can be described here. Remember however that the great majority of persons with Hp have no symptoms that they are aware of and consider themselves normal.

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Harish Andela
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:11 am

Toxicosis in H.pylori infection

Post by Harish Andela » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:55 am

I am looking to get your opinion on a research article by a researcher or H.Pylori. I will link it below to the article. I will be forever greatful if you could spare a couple of minutes to give me your opinion. I don't know who else to ask!

I have been suffering from a mixture of seemingly unrelated symptoms for more than two years.
I had low energy all day, I slept for 16-18 hours every day and still didn't feel refreshed after I woke up. I had headaches and couldn't concentrate or carry out day to day tasks that required mental focus. My stools are all messed up and alternated between constipation and loose stools. Lack of appetite. Lack of interest in creative activities

I visited lot of specialists who ordered a wide array of tests looking to find what's wrong.

All the tests came back negative and the doctors concluded it is one of two things: 1) A psychosomatic illness triggered by a traumatic event or 2) I'm hypochondriac and anorexic and in denial of my symptoms.

I had almost given up on finding a diagnosis and was at the end of my rope as they say. Then one day I found a research article by Mihai Belascu titled -"Toxicosis in H.Pylori infection" and immediately identified with the symptoms mentioned in the patients referred to in the article. I was elated to have finally found some answers.

I visited a gastroenterologist and asked for an H.Pylori investigation. He ordered an endoscopy and the RUT test came back positive. He put me on
the following medication for 14 days.
Amoxicillin, Clarithromycin and Pantoprazole. I immediately saw a major improvement with all my symptoms. My appetite returned and my sleep was a lot more refreshing and my energy levels were better.

But as soon as I stopped the antibiotic course after 14 days all my symptoms gradually returned. I went back to the doctor and he suggested we do a second endoscopy after one month. The second endoscopy came back positive and so he put me on a second round of H.pylori regimen which was Amoxicillin, Levofloxacin and esomeprazole. I saw a slight improvement in the first 3 to 4 days around 20 to 30 percent but then the improvement stopped and all symptoms went back to their original level of severity.

When I went back to the doctor, he said none of my symptoms are typical to an H.Pylori infection. Also, H.Pylori infection rate is around 50 percent in my country and so there is a 50 percent chance that he himself is positive with h.pylori. So my symptoms could not be a result of H.Pylori infection and my lack of appetite is probably psychiatric in origin, likely anorexic. When I mentioned that I do not think I am fat and in fact I think I am thinner than I what I like to be he just brushed aside my protest, which I admit made me feel a bit like punching him.

After two rounds of treatment failure, I am stuck on what to do next. I want to add Bismuth to my treatment regimen but it looks like it is not staple component in H.Pylori eradication treatment in my country, so I couldn't find it anywhere.

I am hoping to find someone on this forum who had more extensive experience in diagnosing and treating H.Pylori. I am attaching the article I cited above to this post and I hope the doctors, researchers or any other experts on H.Pylori can take a look and give me your opinion.
Attachments
59-2. Article Text - Manuscript-673-1-10-20140216.pdf
Toxicosis due to H.Pylori infection
(265.85 KiB) Downloaded 6 times

Helico_expert
Site Admin
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Toxicosis in H.pylori infection

Post by Helico_expert » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:10 am

Thanks for sharing the interesting article. So have your second treatment actually failed? did you do a breath test to confirm the eradication?

Bismuth is very good because H. pylori cannot become resistant to it. You can probably buy it online. eg. try pepto bismol

if you are indeed, still a carrier of H. pylori, ask your doctor for bigger dose PPI and Amoxicillin. Then add bismuth and another antibiotic that you have not tried. eg. tetracycline or furazolidone.

Harish Andela
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:11 am

Re: Toxicosis in H.pylori infection

Post by Harish Andela » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:16 pm

For whatever reason, breath tests are not the norm here in my country. The only lab I found doing it is in Mumbai and it actually costs more than the stool test. I did a stool test only three days after stopping the second round of treatment and it came back negative.

The doctor who ordered the test said it is no big deal to take the test only three days after stopping antibiotics, but I am not convinced it was a good idea especially for a stool test.

I am thinking of doing a third endoscopy when 6 weeks have passed after I stopped the antibiotics. It has been only three weeks now.

Should I ask for a bacterial culture to test the antibiotic resistance of h.pylori strain in my stomach. I read that it is done but I'm not sure if it is done in India.

Also, is Bismuth Subsalysilicate only form of bismuth used to treat h.pylori? As far as I can find, Pepto Bismol is not available in India. I also couldn't find any other brand names under which bismuth subsalysilicate is sold under.

I might be grasping at straws here, but between the not finding breath test to make a diagnosis and my doctor's apparent lack of experience in treating h.pylori and not finding Bismuth as a treatment option, I am wondering if it would be wise of me to try to get to H.Pylori research institute at UWA.

The only problem I see in the plan is, that given my finances, or more accurately the lack of finances, the only mode of transport I could afford is if I hitchhiked to Australia. The distance notwithstanding, I would do it, if not for the shark-infested waters between India and Australia. Sharks have always hated me ever since that surfing incident and I'm not willing to take that chance again.

Perhaps I could work at the H.Pylori institute in exchange for treatment?

Are there any openings in the laboratory positions at the H.Pylori institute? (Like I don't know, feeding the bacterial cultures breakfast in a Petri-dish or operating the centrifuges. Pardon me since I'm about to graduate in electronics engineering, I haven't been to many biology laboratories other than that one time in high school when they dissected a frog and I vomited my guts out.)

Or maybe janitorial positions? I have my fair share of experience dealing with trash given the company I have kept over the years!

If any Indian doctors are affiliated with you over the years, I would be grateful if you could check and pass me the information about them.

Seems like I am grasping at straws! Maybe you can throw me a lifeboat? Or a wooden log?

In any case, I want to sincerely thank you for your time.

Regards.

H.

.

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 3064
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Toxicosis in H.pylori infection

Post by Helico_expert » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:41 pm

There are many forms of bismuth compound. In China, the doctor just grab whatever is available in the Hospital. I dont think proper study has been done to compare the difference between each bismuth compound.

stool test is as good as breath test. however, it rely on the bacteria load. So you should not have done it just 3 days after treatment. You probably can do it now (3 weeks after treatment). You can of course get endoscopy done to find out as well. Culture would be best if the laboratory has such service available.

Hexrain
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:55 am

Re: Toxicosis in H.pylori infection

Post by Hexrain » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:48 pm

about the testing procedures... if im on just a PPI for 4 days (havent confirmed for sure H. pylori previously) would the PPI affect a stool test? the doctors assistant seemed to think that is the detection method to use. but i am worried about false negatives.

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 3064
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Toxicosis in H.pylori infection

Post by Helico_expert » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:15 pm

Yes. as we previously discussed. PPI can reduce H. pylori load. Stool test is relying on the H. pylori load.

Hexrain
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:55 am

Re: Toxicosis in H.pylori infection

Post by Hexrain » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:27 pm

we decided on blood test to be absolutely sure.

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 3064
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Toxicosis in H.pylori infection

Post by Helico_expert » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:39 pm

Unfortunately blood test cannot tell your current infection status.
Your blood has memory. So it will stay positive for months or years.
Nevertheless, if your doctor is able to give you the anti-H. pylori antibody concentration for now, 3 months and 6 months later. Then you can plot a graph to see the trend. If the trend is going down, then H. pylori is eradicated. if the trend is same or higher, that means H. pylori not eradicated.

Hexrain
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:55 am

Re: Toxicosis in H.pylori infection

Post by Hexrain » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:32 pm

but if i have never been diagnosed with H. pylori, or gone through eradication (i have not had eradication YET) then it is just as good as the other tests right? i mean you said it yourself, that eradication is the only way to get rid of it. it (detection from blood test) just isnt effective detection for people who have had a re-occurance. is that correct?

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 3064
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: Toxicosis in H.pylori infection

Post by Helico_expert » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:11 am

you are right. if you had not taken any H. pylori treatment, then doctors can use blood test as a proper diagnosis and give treatment.

blood test is not accurate for reinfected cases.

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