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H Pylori but no inflammation?

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photon
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Re: H Pylori but no inflammation?

Post by photon » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:04 am

good luck keep us updated i tested negative for breath and stool test. I think probably h pylori damaged our stomachs and they cant function normally anymore. Im gonna eat just vegetables/eggs/chicken and fats since it seems i can no longer digest starch/fructose.

Johno87
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Re: H Pylori but no inflammation?

Post by Johno87 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:54 pm

Possibly photon. I hope that eventually things return to normal though. I'm on a variety of nerve pain medications at the moment for it, as so far doctors have found no physical cause yet for my pain.


Hypothetically speaking though, if someone who was infected with H Pylori only took a PPI, would that lead to increased inflammation and the spread of H Pylori to other parts of the stomach? I've read studies that contradict each other, so if someone like Helico Expert has an idea that'd be great.

Helico_expert
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Re: H Pylori but no inflammation?

Post by Helico_expert » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:47 am

It is indeed very mysterious. Nobody really knows exactly what happen in the stomach. but my hypothesis is, when someone take PPI, there is no acid in the stomach, and other bacteria can start growing in the stomach. Some of these bacteria can inhibit H. pylori growth. That's why if you search through literature, you'll find lots of articles of PPI killing H. pylori, but did not state how. I believe it is the other bacteria from the mouth or the food that you eat, that is killing the HP.

Then, are these "other" bacteria that start growing in the stomach cause inflammation? nobody knows.

Johno87
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Re: H Pylori but no inflammation?

Post by Johno87 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:34 am

Hypothetically speaking then, once PPI use is discontinued wouldn't that kill the bacteria that inhibited the H Pylori due to the increase in pH levels?

If so, and if these other bacteria can cause inflammation afterwards, that poses two questions:

1) Can the body naturally heal from the inflammation with the stimulus gone (i.e. bacteria) without the use of antacids or PPI's?
2) What affect might this have on a diagnosis from tests such as the urea breath test (where a negative result could occur but the patient still experiencing symptoms consistent with h pylori infection)

Helico_expert
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Re: H Pylori but no inflammation?

Post by Helico_expert » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:43 am

Hi

Good question.

First of all, when you stop PPI, the pH goes down. So yes, in a healthy individual, the stomach will return to acidic and all "other" bacteria will be killed off.

If there is no H. pylori, all the immune cells that were there to fight off pathogen will gradually subside, and the stomach should gradually return to normal.

Why some people still present symptoms when there is no H. pylori and the stomach is acidic? This is hard to very hard to tell as there is very little data on this.

Perhaps because there are still quite a number of active immune cells there, thinking that there may still be pathogen around.
Perhaps because directly or indirectly of the immune cells, the stomach cells are not recovering.
Perhaps the stomach is so used to an environment so full of H. pylori, now that it is gone, it has to readjust itself to a bacteria free environment.

Johno87
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Re: H Pylori but no inflammation?

Post by Johno87 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:36 pm

Interesting. So out of curiosity, if the stomach cells were not recovering due to immune cells after H Pylori infection, would a biopsy and histology show this?

photon
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Re: H Pylori but no inflammation?

Post by photon » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:23 pm

What abot the severe gastritis h pylori left us with? should that heal in weeks by itself or should we have no symptoms?

Johno87
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Re: H Pylori but no inflammation?

Post by Johno87 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:16 pm

photon have you had an endoscopy?

I thought I had severe gastritis as well after I finished treatment, but to my surprise my scope showed no inflammation at all (and biopsies confirmed this). I'm wondering if h pylori treatment does something at a cellular level that cannot be detected by a scope/biopsy (i.e. neuropathy). And if so, how/when will the stomach correct itself?

I'm experiencing symptoms now that I never had before treatment (i.e. continual, sometimes dull or crampy pain in my upper abdomen that is there 24/7).

shid0x
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Re: H Pylori but no inflammation?

Post by shid0x » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:53 am

Johno87 wrote:photon have you had an endoscopy?

I thought I had severe gastritis as well after I finished treatment, but to my surprise my scope showed no inflammation at all (and biopsies confirmed this). I'm wondering if h pylori treatment does something at a cellular level that cannot be detected by a scope/biopsy (i.e. neuropathy). And if so, how/when will the stomach correct itself?

I'm experiencing symptoms now that I never had before treatment (i.e. continual, sometimes dull or crampy pain in my upper abdomen that is there 24/7).
Do you exercice regulary.

Try walking 1h + a day at least and go see a ostheopath ( yes you read that well )
Sometimes the psoras can get in trouble and cause similar pain an ostheopath is able to get it back to normal ( caution, its weird as fuck ).

If its not that have you been checked for other things ? Gallbladder ? Intestine ?

Johno87
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Re: H Pylori but no inflammation?

Post by Johno87 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:26 am

I used to work out in the gym regularly, but these days it's just walking.

And I've had a ton of tests so far: blood, urine, stool, CT scan, endoscopy, chest x ray, and abdominal ultrasound. Going for my second urea breath test tomorrow (first was negative).

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