Side Effect Report - Salvage/Quadruple/Bismuth Therapy

The cure of Hp usually requires antibiotics. Other things have been tried and have a weaker effect.

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sidney75
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Side Effect Report - Salvage/Quadruple/Bismuth Therapy

Post by sidney75 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:11 pm

Hello,

I'm a 42 y/o female, and was originally diagnosed with H Pylori via endoscopy over 15 years ago. I completed a treatment at the time, but was never retested to ensure it was eradicated.

I had several endoscopies for on-going GI issues over the years and H. Pylori was never indicated by GI. In January, I had an upper/lower scopes to rule out Crohn's Disease and the doctor noted congestive gastropathy, and biopsies showed H.Pylori.

I completed initial therapy which consisted of Amoxicillian/Clarithamycin/PPI 2x per day for 14 days. Completed treatment fairly easily with some side effects of abdominal discomfort. Stool test four weeks post treatment showed H Pylori still present.

I recently completed a salvage/quadruple/bismuth treatment which consistent of:
Doxycycline Hylcate 100mg 2x per day
Flagyl 250mg 4x per day
Bismuth 524 mg 4 x per day
PPI 2 x per day

I had horrible side effects during the treatment and couldn't find any information on-line or from my doctor so I wanted to possibly help someone else out by sharing my side effects. The treatment was brutal. Most notably I had left flank/kidney and pelvis pain and pressure. It was severe. I felt generally ill the entire time I was on the treatment and only wanted to sleep or lay in bed. I also had mood disturbances - I was very cranky and mean - which is not my natural demeanor. Cognitively I was exhausted and foggy. I ran a fever for several days of my treatment. I had significant bloating, and major increase in urine output. I checked with my Doctor several times and she ran blood work, which showed slight elevation in WBC but she advised me to finish the treatment. I completed treatment four days ago and I am back to feeling pretty good. All of the side effects have gone away, no pain/pressure in back/pelvis, my head is clear, and I feel normal.

My fingers are crossed that my H Pylori is eradicated because I do not want to go through that again it was rough. I hope this is helpful to others who are struggling with the side effects. Thanks!

Helico_expert
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Re: Side Effect Report - Salvage/Quadruple/Bismuth Therapy

Post by Helico_expert » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:15 am

thank you for sharing your story. we look forward to hearing your follow up breath test result. your last quadruple therapy is a strong one. pretty sure you'll have it eradicated.
:)

H.P porteur
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Re: Side Effect Report - Salvage/Quadruple/Bismuth Therapy

Post by H.P porteur » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:40 am

Sidney75,

I don't know what to tell you but this H.pylori multi antibiotic therapy will create multi resistant H.pylori like the one you have.

Unfortunately, Conventional medical wisdom uses non sense and unnatural approaches to fix natural problem.

I have reading stories of many people here and many of them did not get better from these aggressive therapies against H.pylori. Not only they did not eradicate this bacteria as their symptoms did not change but they killed most of their microbiome.

Helico_expert
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Re: Side Effect Report - Salvage/Quadruple/Bismuth Therapy

Post by Helico_expert » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:23 am

Hi,

usually people who are cured do not post their recovery on website. So there is a bias in publication. Antibiotic treatment is the only way of successfully eradicate H. pylori.

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Re: Side Effect Report - Salvage/Quadruple/Bismuth Therapy

Post by H.P porteur » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:22 pm

Helico_expert wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:23 am
Hi,

usually people who are cured do not post their recovery on website. So there is a bias in publication. Antibiotic treatment is the only way of successfully eradicate H. pylori.
My brother and sister don't use the net. Both were treated for H.pylori and both are still sick with gastritis. My brother don't bother much with the treatment. I guess the doctor who treated him in France thinks he is cured. I think doctors are biased because when a patient does not come back it does not mean he was cured.

My sister is still sick. She took in February pylera. She was fine then she is still sick. That is the second treatment. My sister does not use the net also.

My conclusions regarding H.pylori is from my personal experience and those who I know ( my brother and sister). And the net is full with people who took all these therapies and they are still sick. Like I said, when a sick person gets tooth abcess, he takes antibiotics and the abscess heals. With H.pylori it is not the case yet.

The other issue is when sometimes the doctor treat the whole family for H.pylori when a patient gets reinfect and the doctor thinks other family members have h.pylori. I read in one paper, that a doctor treated a whole family and among them some of had the bacteria and had no symptoms. This violates Kosh postulates. If this bacteria harms some and not other, than something is wrong. Maybe the host is not healthy to begin with. Maybe he has a disturbed immune system. Why would the same bacteria be problematic to some member of the family and not to others?

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Re: Side Effect Report - Salvage/Quadruple/Bismuth Therapy

Post by Helico_expert » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:10 am

I think the problem with your brother and sister is that the doctor did not follow up their condition after treatment. It is important to check if they are still infected with H. pylori. Nevertheless, it's very hard for the doctor if the patient refuse to follow up the treatment. In our clinic, we have so much trouble trying to follow up with the patients. It's a full time job just to sit there all day to phone up patients to come back for a simple check up.

Pylera is a very strong treatment. Your sister should go back for a check up. I believe she is cured, but she might need PPI to control the symptom.

in regards to treating the whole family, that's the best way of preventing reinfection, with or without symptom. H. pylori MAY be useful for children, but definitely harmful for all adults and should be eradicated. Why the same bacteria gives different disease symptom to everybody? that's depending on the person's immune response and genetic makeup. It's like we are all human, why some has blue eyes and some has black; or some has fair skin and some dark; some took 2 days to recover from cold whereas some took a week; etc

In regards to Kosh Postulates, all H. pylori infection leads to inflammation in the stomach. The inflammation may or may not give patient symptom. If you give healthy individual H. pylori, they will too develop inflammation in the stomach. Barry Marshall has already proven that by drinking it. We have also proven that it is almost 100% that we are able to culture H. pylori from all inflamed stomach. And Barry Marshall has proven that the same H. pylori can be isolated from his inflamed stomach again.

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Re: Side Effect Report - Salvage/Quadruple/Bismuth Therapy

Post by H.P porteur » Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:50 am

I don't know if your lab is open minded or just you follow one dogma. But people like the biohacker Josiah Zayner cured himself from stomach ulcers using fecal transplants.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/11/opin ... .html?_r=0

Helico_expert
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Re: Side Effect Report - Salvage/Quadruple/Bismuth Therapy

Post by Helico_expert » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:33 am

Thanks for sharing the video. I think it's interesting. But I also agree that it's dangerous and probably not very scientific. He did mention ulcer, but he did not mention that it's stomach ulcer or intestinal ulcer. He also didnt mention that if that transplant cured his IBS problem.

There are many flaws in his self experiment. One obvious one that I notice is the storage of fecal samples in fridge. Although 4 degree is not cold enough to kill off many organism, it is not cold enough to stop certain bacteria growing. He cannot store at -20 freezer as too many organism will die. So the bacterial composition of the fecal samples that he transplanted, would have been quite different from the original source.

in addition, most of the fecal transplant are done via colonoscopy. The reason is because the stomach is acidic and many guts bacteria cannot survive. He took the pill orally, although he present data of similar microbiome with donor, the acid in the stomach would have kill off many.

Anyway, I dont think that this video/blog showed any benefit from his methods and fecal transplant will not cure stomach ulcer

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