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H.pylori treatment is a big failure?

The cure of Hp usually requires antibiotics. Other things have been tried and have a weaker effect.

Moderators: barjammar, Toni, luci2010, Ondek-Expert, kkimura

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H.P porteur
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:46 am

H.pylori treatment is a big failure?

Post by H.P porteur »

I tried H.pylori treatment in 2010, I felt horrible and sicker. When I come here I see that most people who took the treatment are also sick. I got candida for almost a year after taking HPAC. The doctor in Toronto who gave me HPAC, denied that I had candida and I had to go to another treat me with terbinafine ointment.

Antibiotics destroy the mitochondria. And they are making people sicker. If you do not believe me, look where the elite is looking for health:http://www.drmali.com/celebrity-testimonials

Allopathic medicine is a big failure. It is just make people sicker than ever. Sorry to say that but I have read books by famous doctors like Dr Mark Hyman who got sick from his mercury filling and got chronic fatigue.

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: H.pylori treatment is a big failure?

Post by Helico_expert »

Sorry, I am getting confusing messages.

H. pylori treatment or allopathic medicine is big failure? if you refer to allopathic medicine, yes i totally agree. if you meant antibiotics treatment, i have to say, to date, it is the only way to kill H. pylori completely.

also, can you be more specific on the website you are sharing? someone in the drmali.com website mentioned that antibiotics destroy mitochondria?

Nevertheless, perhaps you can tell us what happened to you now? are you still H. pylori positive? have you checked after HPAC treatment?

H.P porteur
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:46 am

Re: H.pylori treatment is a big failure?

Post by H.P porteur »

Helico Expert,

The link I provided above is about where these celebrities seek health. They don't seek it in allopatic medicine which is useless. If the famous people, actors, actresses, members of royal families seek health in alternative medicine and go to alternative doctors, it proves that allopatic medicine is for the masses of the poor, middle class.

My case I explained it above. I took HPAC in 2010 and I became sicker. I got candida on my genitals. The doctor who treated me denied that I have candida from that. I went to another doctor who treated me with an antifungal in order to cure the infection. I did after gastroscopy with biopsy but did not find H.pylori. Was I cured? No, the pain and gastritis continued worst than before. If my problem was not H.pylori to begin with, then these doctors giving this diagnostic to everyone sick with gastritis are oxymoron. They are treating people with no proof if H.pylori is causing their trouble or not.

Look how many people come to the forum and say they feel worst after the treatment. I don't think this treatment is a success.

The other issue is you seem to defend antibiotics and minimize their side effects. Antibiotics, all of them are mitochondrial toxins. They do damage the mitochondria. They block cellular respiration. They shut down the production of the energy currency of the cells which is ATP. There hundreds of articles which speak about the toxicity of most antibiotics against the mitochondria. So, imagine the scenario of taking a drug like HPAC which is useless against H.pylori but also destroys your powerhouse. No wonder, we end up with candida and a compromised immune system.

Again, I have evidences. I can supply articles, peer reviewed papers about the damaging effects of antibiotics against the mitochondria. It is not a conspiracy theory.

The other problem I have with H.pylori theory, is how we can explain the experience of Dr McCarrison in Northern India where he stayed for 9 years with these Hymalyan tribes and never saw a case of '' gastritis'' or '' gastric' ulcer'' or any type of gastro intestinal infection. Why Did Dr McCarrison never met a case of H.pylori or at least a gastritis? To put in in the words of Dr McCarisson '' '' During the period of my association with these peoples I never saw a case of asthenic dyspepsia, of gastric or duodenal ulcer, of appendicitis, of mucous colitis, or of cancer, Although my operating list averaged over 400 operations a year. While I cannot aver that all these maladies were quite unknown I have the strongest reason for the assertion that they were remarkably infrequent. The occasion on which my intention was directed to the abdomen viscera of these people were of the rarest. I can, as I write recall most of them-occasions when my assistance was called for in the relief of strangulated hernias or to expel the ubiquitous parasite Ascaris lubricoides. Amongst these people the abdomen oversensitive to nerve impressions, to fatigue, anxiety or cold was unknown. Their consciousnesses of the existence of this part of their anatomy was, as a rule, related solely to the sensation of hunger. Indeed, their buoyant abdominal health, since my return to the West, provided a remarkable contrast with the dyspeptic and colonic lamentations of our highly civilized communities. Searching for an explanation of this difference in incidence of gastro-intestinal diseases in the two peoples I find it, in the main in four circumstances :
1) Infants are reared as nature intended them to be reared- At the breast. If this source of nourishment fails, they die, and at least they are spared the future gastro-intestinal miseries which so often find their origin in the first bottle.
2) The people live on the unsophisticated food of nature; milk, eggs, grains, fruit and vegetables. I suppose that not one in a thousand of them has ever seen tinned salmon, chocolate, or a patent infant food, less sugar is imported into their country in a year than is used in a moderately sized hotel of this city ( London) in a single day.
3) Their religion prohibits alcohol, and although they do not always lead in this respect a strictly religious life, nevertheless they are eminently a teetotal race.
4) Their manner of life requires the vigorous exercise of their bodies. ''
Dr McCarrison, Description of the food habits of the people of Kashmir, Faulty food in relation to gastro-intestinal disorders.''

Best regards

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: H.pylori treatment is a big failure?

Post by Helico_expert »

Hi,

interesting story. I agree that antibiotics can be toxic. but it is also a miracle drug that saved millions of people from infection. That you cannot deny.

Also, you have to understand, most people who were treated with the antibiotics without problem will not be bothered to join this forum. Only people with treatment difficulties seek other opinions and join this forum. Therefore, this community is biased towards people who has bad experience with antibiotics. However, I must say most people get their H. pylori eradicated after gathering the information from this forum.

HPAC failed to eradicate your H. pylori is not something uncommon here. If you can afford, you can try personalized treatment, where you need to find a specialist who has access to bacterial culture and antibiotic sensitivity testing. Then he is able to prescribe the best antibiotic combination to kill of your H. pylori in one go. In Australia, Perth, we only give consultation to patients who cannot be cured by general doctors. So all our patients have the worst H. pylori strains. We practice this personalized treatment and we are able to achieve a cure rate of over 90%. our work and treatment is published in this article.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12089/full

Should you have any other question regarding to our treatment, do not hesitate to type your question here.

H.P porteur
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:46 am

Re: H.pylori treatment is a big failure?

Post by H.P porteur »

Failure of H.pylori treatment is a well known fact. Some studies are speaking about failure 80% of the first line treatment. And I have known many who have tried HPAC here in Toronto and ended up in the same boat as me, not just from the internet.

Secondly, Dr McCarisson statement about the absence of stomach trouble in Sikh and Himalayan tribes is in itself an evidence against the theory of H.pylori being the only cause of gastritis and ulcers. A doctor of the caliber of McCarisson cannot just threw a statement if he did not realize and observed that Gastric troubles were almost absent in these people during the 9 years when he stayed with them.

Regarding the toxicity of taking 3 strong antibiotics, all you have to do is to tape moniliasis or candidiasis in google scholar and see the amount of articles. It is not new. Many patients have died from candidiasis after using strong antibiotics. I don't know but it seems you guys are dogmatic and have no idea about new research regarding the micro flora.

And the last point, what is the point of a harsh treatment which has a big deal of failure when you can easily get reinfected by H.pylori? The whole idea of this kind of treatment is illogical. Statistics are saying 80% of population in third world countries have it. What is the point of eradicating it? You will get reinfected one day or another. And this big cocktail of treatment is making H.pylori stronger than ever. Think about it. What is the point?

Best regards

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: H.pylori treatment is a big failure?

Post by Helico_expert »

Secondly, Dr McCarisson statement about the absence of stomach trouble in Sikh and Himalayan tribes is in itself an evidence against the theory of H.pylori being the only cause of gastritis and ulcers. A doctor of the caliber of McCarisson cannot just threw a statement if he did not realize and observed that Gastric troubles were almost absent in these people during the 9 years when he stayed with them.
In Australia too, the Aboriginal people almost never complain about stomach problem (scientific reference below). Perhaps it's because their average life span is shorter than the modern society people? Perhaps their traditional diet has suppressible effect on H. pylori? Maybe they are more tolerable to pain and never bother complaining? Maybe they have greater problem to deal with other than stomach discomfort? or maybe they simply lack of medication record to properly audit their gastric problems?

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2005/182 ... 476a880eb8

I don't know but it seems you guys are dogmatic and have no idea about new research regarding the micro flora.
I dont think anyone has a good understanding of micro flora. There are so many scientific articles out there discussing the "healthy" micro flora. Some showed that people living in the rural area carry more diverse microbiota; some showed that fast food and lead to different microbiome; some trying to find the microbiota difference between skinny and fat people; But no one is able to come up with the consensus of what is a "good" micro flora.

what is the point of a harsh treatment which has a big deal of failure when you can easily get reinfected by H.pylori?
I think the problem is that very little people understand the real difference between "reinfection" and "recrudescence". First of all, H. pylori is not easily transmitted. H. pylori is so fragile, it died within a few hours outside human body. The transmission has to be done in a continuous exposure. Example 1, during childhood, the infected mother constantly spoon feeding the child. The child only need one successful transmission from the mother during the 2 - 3 years feeding period, and he will remain infected for the rest of his lifetime (until antibiotics are given). In modern society, the donor of H. pylori can be grandparents (or baby sitter, or childcare) where both parents have to go working. Example 2, The constant exchanging of saliva between partners is an obvious route of transmission. Therefore, partners should be treated in the same time to avoid true reinfection. Example 3, People who has close contacts with animals. In the farm, the animal farmers, in the modern society, the domestic animals. These animals have potential to be the source of Helicobacter. Have you seen people sharing food with their dogs and cats?

In terms of recrudescence, many doctors dont bother checking if the treatment works. They prescribed the antibiotics and if the patients dont come back, they are cured. But many felt better after killing off 99% of their H. pylori. the 1% of resistant H. pylori slowly build up the number and strike back a few months or a few years later. Then many people will think they have been reinfected. but it is not true. and worse, the doctors dont understand and kept treating the patients with the same antibiotics. clearly they are not going to work.

Australia, US and some advance European countries, used to have very high prevalence of H. pylori. Almost everyone has H. pylori. After 30 years of treatment, the prevalence of H. pylori has already dropped below 20%. I think that would be the best evidence towards giving antibiotic treatment to infected patients.

H.P porteur
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:46 am

Re: H.pylori treatment is a big failure?

Post by H.P porteur »

Hi,

If you read Dr McCarrisson carefully you realized he mentioned that they are not a non complainer but they do get sick with ascaris worm and that is the only time when they feel their gut or when they are hungry. He lived with them for 9 years and he said they never had gastritis or colitis or even one case of cancer.

The treatment of H.pylori is not working because it is against nature. a Bacteria so prevalent in hundred millions of people and easily transmitted will win. Humans need to find a better way to deal with it like by vaccines or find why it causes gastritis and ulcers in some while others are fine with it? H.pylori is a successful pathogen. It knows every trick in the book. Striking it with up to 4 antibiotics even show failure. So, certainly something is wrong. :o

Liposomal Omega 3 is very promising against it and it can never gain resistance to it.

Helico_expert
Site Admin
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:20 am

Re: H.pylori treatment is a big failure?

Post by Helico_expert »

Striking it with up to 4 antibiotics even show failure. So, certainly something is wrong. :o
only a small portion of people fail the treatment. Many developed country now has less than 20% prevalence of H. pylori. In Australia, we have about 1000 new gastric cancer per year. In comparison to many developing countries with H. pylori, the gastric cancer rate is scary. For example, Bhutan and China.

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